Niall Ferguson & Peter Schwartz
Historian vs. Futurist on Human Progress
Recorded live on Apr 28, 02008
at Cowell Theater in Fort Mason Center
Past vs. Future
In what turned out to be a riveting evening, historian Niall Ferguson and futurist Peter Schwartz fire-hosed each other with enough ideas, frames of reference, ripostes, and eloquences to lead to a clear conceptual divergence. At the same time, the two were discovering, live in front of an audience, new ways they might work together on future projects.
Ferguson began by pointing out that while we face many futures, there is only one past, and its residents outnumber us--- only 6 percent of all humans are now alive. Historians, he said, "commune with the dead. We re-enact their thoughts, in their context and ours."
Historians look for rough regularities, such as he found in his analysis of the wars and hatred played out in the 20th Century. In his book, The War of the World , he describes how the combination of economic volatility, ethnic conflict, and failing empire always led to spirals of lethal violence. The advance of science and technology has not eliminated the possibility of violence but may have made it more powerful than ever. The three causes are still in play. "Our job is to keep them from coinciding again."
Ferguson ended with a critique of Schwartz's book on scenario planning, The Art of the Long View , which he thought showed signs of "heuristic bias." When Schwartz asked Ferguson to expand on that idea, Ferguson pointed out there was a whole chapter in the book about "The Global Teenager," which seemed spurious. It merely reflected Schwartz's personal experience: "You were a teenager when teenagers mattered. "
Historians also have heuristic biases, Ferguson added, such as their expectation that "great events should have great causes." Historians have much to learn from complexity theory and evolution, he said. His own work with "counter-factual history" helps expose critical moments in history and provides a way to "think about what didn't happen." The counter-factual technique is an application of scenario thinking to the past.
In Schwartz's opening remarks, he said that his plans to write a book titled The Case for Optimism were derailed by reading Ferguson's The War of the World. He's been grappling with the issues Ferguson raised for 18 months. "You do alternative pasts, I do alternative futures. Where historians commune with the dead, futurists have imaginary friends."
Schwartz characterized Ferguson's view of history as basically down, with an upside possibility, whereas his own view was of history as basically up, with always the possibility of getting things wrong. For Schwartz, the second half of the 20th Century showed an upside momentum, with a fraction of the violent deaths---5% of humans killed violently in the first half, 0.2 % in the second half. The Cold War ended quietly. Women were liberated. China took off. Prosperity accelerated. Everything from Wikipedia to cellphones empowered the grassroots.
In response, Ferguson noted Schwartz's "faith in technology" and proposed it reflected his training as an engineer. "Aren't you like the pre-1914 people who said that war was impossible because of all the new technology and commerce?" Schwartz agreed that the parallel is worrying.
Ferguson said, "I think our difference is that I'm a pessimist and you're an optimist. You're Pangloss and I'm Cassandra." Schwartz noted that since his parents were in slave-labor camps in World War II, and he was born in a displaced-person camp after the war, "It would be churlish not to be an optimist." Ferguson said, "That would make me skeptical about technology. The world leader in science and technology in 1940 was Nazi Germany."
Questions from the audience ended with one asking whether optimism or pessimism was a more useful way to think about the future. Schwartz said, "Optimism lets you imagine how you can overcome problems, and those possibilities motivate change." Ferguson said, "You must always focus on worst-case scenarios, and history will teach them to you."
watch
bio
Niall Ferguson is a senior research fellow at Jesus College, Oxford, and at the Hoover Institution, Stanford, as well as visiting professor at the New College of the Humanities, London.
His books include The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook (02018); Civilization: The West and the Rest (02012); and The Ascent of Money (02009).
Peter Schwartz is the Senior Vice President for Global Government Relations and Strategic Planning for Salesforce.com. Prior to that, Peter co-founded Global Business Network, a leader in scenario planning in 01988, where he served as chairman until 02011. From 01982 to 01986, Peter headed scenario planning for the Royal Dutch/Shell Group of Companies in London. His team conducted comprehensive analyses of the global business and political environment and worked with senior management to create successful strategies. Before joining Royal Dutch/Shell, Peter directed the Strategic Environment Center at SRI International. The Center researched the business milieu, lifestyles, and consumer values, and conducted scenario planning for corporate and government clients.
Schwartz is the co-author of both the 01999 books The Long Boom, and When Good Companies Do Bad Things: Responsibility and Risk in an Age of Globalization, and is the author of the 01991 book, The Art of the Long View: Planning for the Future in an Uncertain World. This seminal publication on scenario planning has been translated into Dutch, Portuguese, and Chinese. Peter also co-authored "Seven Tomorrows: Toward a Voluntary History" with James Ogilvy and Paul Hawken in 01982, and "The Emergent Paradigm: Changing Patterns of Thought and Belie" with James Ogilvy in 01979. He has published and lectured widely and served as a script consultant on the films War Games and Sneakers. He received a BS in aeronautical engineering and astronautics from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. The Schwartz Energy Blog can be read here.
Join our newsletter for the latest in long-term thinking
Subscribe